Classwork for 11.04.14
Plotinus' Enneads- The Middle Road Between Ancient Greek Philosophy and Early Christianity
Read the work by Plotinus that appears when you click here.
In the Comments Section, answer the following questions:
1. How does Plato influence Plotinus in this section?
2. How might Christianity have similar thoughts to these?
3. Write a summary of the text
Update: Please listen to this outline/background on Ancient Christianity; for HW outline the major ideas noted in this podcast. Post your outline in the comments sections below.
Title your first post: Classwork; Title your second post: Homework.
CW
ReplyDeletePlato influences Plotinus in this section because Plotinus continues themes Plato focused on in his works. Plotinus mentions artists seeking a higher form of art through the musician comparison. Plotinus is almost directly mentioning the idea of the forms. Plotinus also speaks about the 3 levels of knowledge. Plato mentions this often in his works. Plato's peak being the philosopher king and the lowest level being the appetitive.
This work can be related to Christian ideals through the connection of both envisioning an ideal person striving to access truth and knowledge. Christians believed one attained this level through a connection with God.
The jist of this text is that Plotinus believes a higher form influences our actions. Plotinus also notes his idea of 3 degrees of knowledge. Plotinus says that we are either moving up in our thoughts or we are moving forward in our current level.
Class work-1. Plato influences Plotinus because Plotinus talks about determinism. You see this when he says "those who at their first birth have entered into the life-germ from which is to spring a metaphysician, a musician or a born lover, the metaphysician taking to the path by instinct, the musician and the nature peculiarly susceptible to love needing outside guidance." He also discusses another realm decides the physical world.
ReplyDelete2. Christianity shares idea of two realms. One is the physical world and the other being heaven. But they would not agree that only Intelligibles get into the second realm.
3. Plotinus discusses determinism and there are three groups of people. The people are always going to be in there social group and can not work their way into another group. Also the middle degree or musician lives in harmony with the first and third degree.
Class work
ReplyDelete1) He is influenced by Plato because he talks about how we must get to the good to discover more about things.
2) Christianity shares the same ideas because we must act good in order to reach heaven after we die.
3) The passage basically talks about different paths to attain knowledge. Gaining the knowledge sooner or later really depends on what path we choose. In the end though the knowledge is within us.
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ReplyDeleteClasswork
ReplyDeleteIt is evident that bits and pieces of Plato's philosophy can be seen in Plotinus's work. Central to Plato is the two realms of being. Plato says our objective in life is to reach the world of Forms and to be enlightened. This can also be seen in the Enneads when Plotinus says our objective is to return to the One. This also ties in with Christianity as we are called to follow in the Lord's way in order to return to him in heaven.
The text of the Ennead can be boiled down to basically being an explanation of how to return to the One. Plotinus theorizes that there isn't one particular way to reach the One, but multiple paths. He says as long as our main goal is to reach the One, the way we get there does not matter.
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ReplyDelete1) Plato influencing Plotinus is present in the fourth paragraph. Plato believed that your Soul would guide you to where you needed to be and that is what Plotinus is saying. But, Plotinus believes there is outside guidance that helps you, which Aristotle touches upon.
ReplyDelete2) Christianity may have similar thoughts to this in respect to the One, being God for Christianity, guiding humans to be what they ought to be and how they should be. They would also agree that our journey is to the good and how some people, the intelligibles have already reached the point in life and have set it in place for others.
3) the first section of the Ennead is trying to say that there is a guidance that humans do not control, but the One does, that will help to bring us to where we should be in life.
1. Plotinus uses Plato's birth ideas in this section. Plotinus explains how people are born differently and that from birth is pre-determined. "Those who at their first birth have entered into the life-germ from which is to spring a metaphysician, a musician or a born lover, the metaphysician taking to the path by instinct, the musician and the nature peculiarly susceptible to love needing outside guidance". This idea of being born differently than someone else is very similar to Platos tripartite theory of the soul.
ReplyDelete2. Christianity would agree with this theory of different realms and stages. The Christian views are not quite the same as Plato and Plotinus, however, the idea of a here and now, and then a heaven/ kingdom of God is a very similar idea to those ideas of these philosophers.
3. Plotinus discusses different types of people, such as the musician and the metaphysician. He also discusses two paths that's make their way upwards, such as conversion from a lower life, and the types of people. We must, as humans, realize what is really real, and what seems to us to be real.
Cw: Plato influences Plotinus in section 1 by using the same theory he used before to explain how everyone is born with rationality but it is as simple as you have it or not. He also uses the 3 levels of knowledge. 2. The work can be related to Christian thought by showing how strong our connection is with God and where our faith is. 3. Plato uses the same theory but also uses his 3 levels of knowledge. But it's in which direction we are going.
ReplyDeleteClass work:
ReplyDeletePlato influences Plontinus because in this section Plontinus introduces the theme of forms of which Plato talks about in his philosophical teachings. He also brings up the three distinct levels of knowledge which was talked briefly about by Plato. He also in the beginning Plotntinus brings up a theme of determinism.
2. This deals with Christian beliefs because they have a belief in two realms which being one the physical world and the other Heaven.
3. The reading is basically having the determination of knowledge of oneself. But also having to explain how to return to the one. With in mind the idea of three levels of knowledge.
Class work
ReplyDelete1. Plato influenced Plotinus about the concept of determinism. Plotinus talks about the there being two types of people in the world. This is essentially the same as Plato's tripartite theory. He gives the example of the metaphysician and the musician. They both have degrees to their intellect, the first being the conversion from the lower life" and the second degree of "those that have already made their way into the sphere of the intellectuals." Then Plotinus relates the average thinker musicician to relying on instincts and senses. He is saying they need to get past that point. The musicician admires beauty and aesthetics, but he cannot connect beauty to intellect.
2. This is similar to a Christian view because it takes faith to understand the wonders of the world, when Plotinus just sees it as it is. The musicician needs to think more than just black and white when it comes to thought on beauty.
3. Plotinus says in the Enneads that there are different types of people influenced differently. It is a connection to The One and how all humans start at the same point.
Then he explains how determinism takes humans to different levels of intelligence and how one type of human can live in harmony with the other types.
Classwork:
ReplyDelete1. Plotinus has some of Plato's ideas in this reading because Plotinus talks about living by instinct or needing guidance for your life. He also mentions seperate lives, like higher and lower lives, which he calls "degrees". This can be related back to Plato's Forms and trying to get to the perfect world.
2. There is a connection between these ideas and Christian ideas because Plotinus mentions that we are trying to gain knowledge in our lives. He also mentions that there are to realms and that there is a higher power.
3. Plotinus is talking about the different levels or degrees of your lives. He mentions that you are either staying where you are in your life, or you are moving forward in gaining knowledge for your soul.
Class work
ReplyDelete1.Plato's influence on Plotinus is his thought of other realms having other parts to do with the mind and body. It also involves some of his metaphysics.
2. Christianity might have similar thoughts because they all have specific beliefs in what people can do and it is a God given trait.
3. In part one it talks about intellect and two stages of path for people to follow. Then it talks about the three step initial process that a musician would need to follow to be what he is, as would everyone if they had a specific goal.
CW
ReplyDelete1.Plato's forms are used in Plotinus as an ultimate goal that humanity know is there and must be reached
2.christanity might share the idea of something greater that man can sense in this world we live
CW 1. Plato influences Plotinus through the sense of the Forms. Plato saw the Forms as the perfection in another realm. While Plotinus similarly saw the One as the perfection. Also the stage we are born into, is mentioned and what we have to do to attempt to reach the One/Form.
ReplyDelete2. Christianity can be seen as somewhat similar to the Plotinus's view on the One. In Christianity God would parallel to the One. Plotinus also mentions that people travel this journey to be like the One/God, and it is a good journey. This would be like those who are Christian, going to church and living their life's in the word of God.
3. In the first section we can see Plotinus's view on how through our lives people are in different stages, and he uses the example of the musician as the one who naturally drawn to beauty, and through his life he attempts to find the forms/One. Our journey and way of life may be different but in the end it is for good, so that we may reach the One.
CLASSWORK
ReplyDeletePlotinus took Plato's philosophy about the Form and changed it to the idea of the One. The One created everything including itself and it acts as the goal for all else. The One is unknown and eternally perfect.
Christianity could have similar thoughts by the way that they perceive God. God and the One could be seen as one in the same because of what they are seen to embody. Both are seen to be the most perfect and the biggest yet most unattainable goal. God gives the Christians a role model and give the Christians something to work towards. The One and God would give hope and purpose to all those that believed in them.
The Enneads describes the One and how people can pursuit it in its perfectness. Humans could pursue the One through pure instinct or by guidance of those who are closer to the One. There are two levels in getting to the One. The first is by accepting the One and beginning the journey towards the One. The second is when the person is already close to the perfectness of the One. They must find a way to advance to the peak of knowledge. Plotinus also describes the three different outcomes that we wish to attain whether it be through art, music, or some other way.
Classwork 1) Plato's influence of Plotinus is most prevalent in paragraph four. Plato believed that your Soul would guide you to where you needed to be, Plotinus believed something similar but that instead of your would it was some sort of external entity guiding you.
ReplyDelete2) Christianity has similar thoughts on this pertaining to the One. The only difference is that the One to Christians is God who is guiding humans. They would also agree that our journey is to the good and how some people have already reached the point in life and have set it in place for others.
3) section one is saying that there is a guidance that humans do not control, but the One does, and this One will help guide us to where we need to be.
1. Plato influences the teachings of Plotinus because Plotinus reflects his current teachings off of the past lessons taught by Plato. Plotinus mentions two different types of people which is similar to the Tripartite Theory and Plotinus also mentions the " One " who symbolizes the Forms.
ReplyDelete2. Christianity ties into these thoughts because Christians believed in two realms the physical world and Heaven. The soul goes to heaven while the body stays in the physical world. Also God and the One are similar because they positively influence humans we also learn from the paths they have given us to follow.
3. This article summarizes how as human we develop spiritually through the different stages of our lives.
HOMEWORK
ReplyDeleteFather Figures- Introduction to Christian Philosophy
- Earliest Christian Thinkers= Church fathers
- understood Plato, Aristotelian logic, teaching of stoics
-Early Christians
-At first not extremely philosophical
-Instead lived in hope through Jesus Christ
-Philosophy was not fully embraced, less arguing, simpler beliefs
-Philosophy started to have an influence due to the language (Greek)
Christians- ethical- chastity- refused Roman gods
Pagans- Embraced sexual relations- accepted gods- believed Christians to be cannibals and atheists
Philosophy in Christianity
306 AD- Constantine becomes emperor of west part
312 AD- Constantine has vision, begins to support Christianity
-This new power gives the Christians the ability to debate heresies
-Trinity and Incarnation- big debatable subjects
-Philosophy embraced by earlier Christian thinkers while arguing against heresies and pagans so that they can outsmart them.
-Clement, Origen, and Augustan criticized pagan philosophers
Issues argued through philosophy
-Causation
-How can the Father and Son be the same when the Father makes the Son?
-Free Will
-How can there be such thing as free will when God knows everything? Therefore God would already know what decisions you would make no matter what since he knows all. (Determinism)
-Language
-Language hides the true meaning behind things. Language is up to interpretation so how can you know what the author is actually saying?
Homework
ReplyDelete1. Greek idea for philosophy may have gotten into Christian beliefs due to the fact most early Christians spoke and read Greek.
2.Christians going through a long time of persecution by the hand of the Romans
3.Augustine gathering better thoughts of how God is through Plotinus writings.
Classowrk: 1.One can see Platos influence most on Plotonius in Paragraph four.Plato and Plotonius both believed in an external force guiding human action.Plotinus' idea of the One can be similarly compared to Plato's Forms.
ReplyDelete2. Christianity believes in two realms where one is more common and accessible than the other.There is also an idea of an idea of guidance by a higher power.
3. The passage describes Platonius view of how different human beings find different paths to gaining knowledge. Also, all humans have a connection to the One which motivates and provides a sense of direction.
I) Jesus has been compared to Socrates
ReplyDeleteII) Early Christian Schools were not philosophical, however attempting to live a life like Jesus
III) Greek Speaking missionaries were able to learn from philosophers, leading to it being spread and vice versa.
IV) Christians were seen as cannibals, atheists, and engaging in too much sexual engagement.
V) Constantine at the Battle of the Maldivian bridge won, and gave credit to Christ/Christianity
VI) Constantine legalized Christianity, and allowed it to grow.
VII) Augustine read Plotinus and found the One/God.
VIII) The fathers of the Church studied the Philosophy before them,
IX) Doctrinal notes were established.
X) How can Jesus be the begotten son?
XI) Philosophy was a weapon to fight against heresies
XII) Causation- Debated very often
XIII) Free will, and moral responsibility Augustine- need divine grace
XIV) Language- how it can be so useful, but limited. I.E Scripture
XV) Do we know what the words mean?
XVI) Are things predetermined? Like the soul
Homework
ReplyDeleteFather Figures in the Church
- Church Fathers were first known Christian thinkers
- Knew of Greek Philosophers
- Christians
- At first not philosophical at all
- Thought through Jesus only, no other main topics to think about
- Greek Philosophers eventually had an influence
- Through Christians being able to speak Greek
- Resulted in constant conflict with Pagans
Christian Philosophy
- Constantine becomes emperor of Rome
- Passes Edict of Milan
- Allows for toleration of Christianity
- Christians begin to organize their religion and find what they believe in
- Many topics introduced
- Trinity, Incarnation
- Clement, Origen, Augustine were most prominent Christian philosophers
- Key topics of discussion
- Determinism
- Free Will
- Relationship between God the Father and God the Son
- Jesus' birth Didn't impact Philosophy
ReplyDelete-Nor did his death
-referred to as Christian Fathers
-knew of Plato and Aristotle
-made use of Philosophical ideas
-made some contributions
-1st Century AD don't see Plato's Doctrine
-Moses came before Helenic Philosophers
-no schools nor committed to dogma
-communities with God
-not associated with Greek Philosophers just Greek language
-Helenic Philosophers influenced the Christian Fathers
-Books of Plotius help influence
-Not all Christian thinkers agreed with philosophers
-could use logic from philosophers for arguments
Key topics
-Issue of causation
-Free will
-Gods relationship with Jesus
Homework
ReplyDeleteEarly Christians aware of Greek philosophers
Echoes of philosophy in the bible
Moses before heretic
Martyrdom in a good and bad sense
Called Christians a lot of horrible things
Patristics: study of fathers
Origin talks about what is and what is open for debate
Homework
ReplyDeleteEarly Church thinkers were known as Church Fathers
There are bits and pieces of philosophy in the bible
The life and death of Jesus did not affect the ideas and thoughts of philosophers
Helenic Philosophers came after Moses
Most of the time, Christians were persectuted because other peeople did not understand their traditions
Augustine read texts from Plotinus and learned about the One
Doctoral notes were created after the Fathers of the Church read philosophical texts
Causations was often a highly debated topic
According to Augustine, free will needed divne grace
How do the wrods of scripture get lost in translation?
hmwk
ReplyDeleteFather Figures
-Historical Jesus was not born on Christmas, was not a huge impact on philosophy.
-Medieval period , very prolific time for philosophers
- christians and jews had very little differences at first
-pagans thought singles gods were bizzare
- Martyrdom became a common thing.
-Constantine becomes emperor of Rome, introduces christianity
-Christians banned from teaching rhetoric
-Issue of causation
-relationship with human father and son
- free will and moral responsibility
- relationship with the holy trinity
HW
ReplyDelete1. Martydom become a common thing.
2.Jesus was not born on Christmas as we are told.
3.Not all Christians believed philospohical thinkers.
4. How can Jesus be the begotton son?
5.Jesus' life had no impact on philosphy
6. Christians were seen as cannibals
7. Free will
8.Constantine allowed Christianity and promoted it to grow
9. Philosophy was used as a weapon
10. Determinism
Classwork :
ReplyDelete1) Plato influences Plotinus through the sphere of intellectuals . The knowing which is the intellect. In The 3rd degree , Plotinus mentions reaching the intellectual realm (capital F forms).
2) through Christianity , you have to act good to reach heaven . In this section , our is to be good .
3) the 3 degrees guide our actions from an Influential higher form. We are either moving one way or the other
Homework:
ReplyDeleteEarly church thinkers were known as church fathers . Jesus' humanity did not affect any philosophers. There is some philosophy in the bible. Causes were debated. Augustine thought free will needed devine grace.
Homework:
ReplyDelete1. Jesus influence
2. Philosophy influences Christianity
3. Religions were divided
4. Each religion has its own distinction
5. Constantine becomes the emperor
6. Constantine's visions
7. The trinity becomes questioned
8. All comes back to philosophy in religion
Class work
ReplyDeletePlato preaches about the soul and non physical, One vs. many.
Plotinus speaks about realms. Also they received the of beauty of the world as far as nature and the soul. Plotinus agreed with that he thought The theory has to involve parts, such as color and light. Christianity comes into play
Homework 1. God's influence
ReplyDelete2. Philosophers influences Christianity
3. Religions were separated
4. How can Jesus be the begotton son?
5.Jesus' life had no impact on philosphy
6. Christians were seen as cannibals
7. Freedom of the soul
8.Everything comes full circle back to philosophy and religion
hw
ReplyDeleteFather Figures
- the Early church thinkers known as church fathers
- biblical figures compared to philosophical figures
first century AD teachings of jesus has been compared to Socrates
- questioning of the trinity
-
- persecution of Christians and Constantine becoming emperor
-
Homework
ReplyDeleteFather Figures
1. Historically Jesus was not born on Christmas, was not a huge impact on philosophy.
2. Medieval period, for philosophers, was extremely prolific
3. Christians and jews had very little differences at first.
4. Pagans thought singles gods were bizarre.
5. Martyrdom became a common thing.
6. Constantine becomes emperor of Rome, leaglizes christianity.
7. Christians banned from teaching rhetoric.
8. Issue of causation
9. Relationship with human father and son
10. Moral responsibilities and free will
11. Relationship with holy trinity
Homework
ReplyDeleteFather Figures:
1.The calender was not precisely accurate on Jesus' birth.
2. Philosophy impacted Christianity
- Philosophers known as Christian Fathers
- Connected Religion and their faith
3. Medieval period
4. Judaism challenged Christians
5. Emperors becoming Christian
- Constantine declared Christian the national religion
6. Pagans vigorously challenged beliefs
7. Philosophers criticized each other and were hostile
8. Christian Fathers modified and rethought some philosophies
- Emphasized in teachings
9. Philosophy was manipulated to back up rational argument with Christianity
- Issues within old ideas
10. Idea of causation, that God's divinity causes the world
11. Human actions are free
- Christians respond to these types of ideas
12. Langue fascinated Christians
- Expanded range of learning and translating
- Better intellect to drive philosophy
Classwork:
ReplyDelete1. We can see Plotinus influenced by Plato in the part where Plotinus says,"those who at their first birth have entered into the life-germ from which is to spring a metaphysician, a musician, or a born lover, the metaphysician taking to the path by instinct." We se that Plotinus embodies the idea of Plato's Theory of Recollection which states one is born with all knowledge in possesion,
2. Christianity may suppor this by stating that through God, all humans were bon with an intellect which is an innate part of the soul.
3. How do we find our place in life? Everybody strives for good in their lives but does not know how to achieve it. Nobody knows how the course to our destiny is, but Plotinus helps us to know how.
Homework:
Father Figures: Introduction to Ancient Christian Philosophy
-Historical Jesus was probably not born on Christmas Day
-Augustine is the main Christian philosopher of the time
-"Churchfathers" were the earliest Christian thinkers
-Origen was the greatest of early Greek fathers
-Some tried to speak out against martyrdom
-Some church fathers were martyrs
-Philosophy was used to combat heresy